If one cut an onion with a milky kitchen knife (not ben yomo) and unsure if the knife was ever really used in a case of kli rishon. That onion was then placed in a not ben yomo milky frying pan with a little oil and cooked for a very short time (around a minute) (The onions didn’t seem any where near browning). The onions were then mixed with a meaty kitchen fork (not ben yomu) and not sure it was ever for sure used in a kli rishon..Is everything trief?
Onions? milky pan? meaty fork? How does one kasher a frying pan if the case is where it gets triefed up? There are screws that help join the handle.
Answer:
Because there is no knowledge that the knife was even used in a keli rishon (or with hot dairy foods — as I understand from the question), it follows that the knife is not considered dairy at all (it has a chazakah that when it was bought it was parev), and therefore there is no concern for the other foods and dishes.
[The concept of davar gush is a chumra (to consider it a keli rishon), and on a bedieved level will not prohibit the food.]
Even if it was used for dairy hot items, if it was not used in a keli rishon, it follows that bedieved we will not consider it dairy (Yoreh De’ah 105). Knives are in general not used in a keli rishon, so that this will be sufficient for out case.
If the knife was fully dairy (for instance if we know that it was used in a keli rishon), and imparted its taste to the onion, the onion will be prohibited on account of the taste of the meat from the fork that becomes mixed with the dairy taste in the onions. The pan will likewise require hag’alah.
However, as noted it can generally be assumed that the knife was not used in a keli rishon, and this is good reason to permit both onions and pan.
Best wishes.
l’kavod Harav, thanks for the reply.
a) I am not sure I was clear enough with my question.
First off, the silverware in the kitchen is used on a regular bases with hot foods. However, I am not sure if the silverware has for sure been used with foods in a kli rishon. Do you think that the average kitchen utensil (spoon,fork,knives) is used with kli rishons? I mean a spoon or fork may be sometimes used to stir a soup on the fire or the knives may be used to cut meat to see if the meat is fully cooked on the fire at times, but the majority of the time the silverware is used only at the actual table at the time of the meal where there is rarely a case of kli rishon, and since we have around 8 of each kli, I therefore stated that I am not certain that the untensils used in this case were ever used in a case of a kli rishon. Is this a snif to be more lenient?
b) The case (i think) is different than the previous discussion. In this case the onion was cut with a potentially non ben yomo milky knife and placed in the correct non ben yomo milky frying pan…then a non ben yomo meaty fork was used to stir the onion on the fire. Even if we say the taste is weak and can’t transfer to the pot…in this case, the taste from the non ben yomo meaty fork seemingly went into the onion that was cut with a non ben yomo milky knife. Therefore, I thought the onions were treifed up at that point because the same onion was cut with a milky knife and stirred while hot with a meaty fork..in a hot milky frying pan. If the two weak tastes clash into the onions don’t they become trief? Once the onion is treif, shouldnt it then treif up to pot? My only svara to be mekil was that these utensils aren’t really meaty or milky like stated above. I know there is the Beis Meir who says that if one cuts an onion with a non benyomo milky knife and cooks it in a non ben yomo meat pot then bedieved everything is ok …because of all the chumras involved in the discussion of charif by onion, and nat bar not, and ein benyomo etc. However, I thought my case was worse in that onions were being cooked in a frying pan and drawing out some level of milky taste from the frying pan while at the same time drawing out meaty taste from the fork.
You are right. I didn’t read the question carefully enough, and did not relate to the fork. I am changing the answer now.
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