Question:
Hi,
Firstly, I just would like to thank all of you who really devote so much time and energy to answer each question on this site. The answers are amazing and the sources really add. Much appreciated!
I know it says in the torah that a man is supposed to rule over his wife and that the wife is meant to be submissive to the husband, by giving in when they aren't able to reach a compromise, and making sure the husband is the one to have the final say.
I just wonder firstly, what if the husband is very soft and 'weak' in that he doesn't know what to do, or is indecisive - is the wife still meant to go by whatever he wants, or in this case, is she meant to be the one 'in charge', as she is more suited to the role and more stronger-minded than him?
2) I know of a couple where the wife seems to be making all the decisions and deciding on a time when to leave, when to stop an activity or who to go to. She is more stronger than him, and he by nature, is very soft and flexible.
Is their marriage in jepeordy? And if so, what can be done about it?
Thanks again!
Answer:
Hello,
Thank you for the wonderful chizuk! When we get positive feedback, it gives us the strength to continue. Your kind words are much appreciated.
Regarding your question, please it is not clear to me where it says this, as my understanding is that what it says in the Torah is different than what you are writing. For example, the Rambam (Hilchos Ishus 15-19) writes, “A man has to love his wife like himself and honor her more than he honors himself, and he should spend his money on her according to his means. He should not make her overly fear him, and he should talk to her softly and not angrily”. On the other hand it does say, in Bereishis, "ואל אידך תשוקתך והוא ימשול בך", “and to your husband will be your desire, and he will rule over you”. This does not mean that he rules over her like a master over a servant, and whenever there is a difference of opinion, that his opinion has to rule. See Rashi, that it means that even though she will want relations, she will be shy to say it, however he isn’t shy about it, therefore, in this respect it is as if he is ruling over her. Other Rishonim say that it means, that a woman’s desire is to get married even though she is servicing her husband, by providing him with is physical needs, such as preparing meals, laundry etc.
It does not mean that the husband, rules over her as a master and servant. On the contrary, if there is a difference in opinion, if he will give in to her, she will see that he respects her, and values her and her opinion, and later on, when he wants something, she will give in to him. A woman does want a husband to be her leader, and guide, but not her ruler. Especially nowadays, if a husband is going to try ruling over her and being a dictator, then his marriage is in jeopardy, especially if they are going to fight over petty things, and each one is going to insist on being the “winner”.
Marriage is built on respect, and even if a person has a wife who is string minded, and has to do things specifically her way. By her husband bending for her, she notices all of this, and he is building up her respect for him in her eyes, and he will gain in hundreds of other ways. She may be stronger than him in the sense of her desire to have things her way, however she realizes that he is better than her, because he is flexible. She will then want to please her husband, because she sees that she has his respect, and when something is important to him, she will gladly accommodate him on it. As R’ Steinman zt”l used to say, “I was young and grew old, and I have never seen a person, give in, and lose out because of it”. Tis is especially true in marriage.
Best wishes
Sources:
רמב"ם הלכות אישות פרק טו הלכה יט "וכן צוו חכמים שיהיה אדם מכבד את אשתו יתר מגופו ואוהבה כגופו, ואם יש לו ממון מרבה בטובתה כפי הממון, ולא יטיל עליה אימה יתירה ויהיה דיבורו עמה בנחת ולא יהיה עצב ולא רוגז."
רש"י בראשית פרק ג פסוק טז "ואל אשך תשוקתך - לתשמיש ואף על פי כן אין לך מצח לתובעו בפה אלא הוא ימשול בך, הכל ממנו ולא ממך" שוקתך - תאותך, כמו (ישעיה כט ח) ונפשו שוקקה:
Thanks. But I'm really confused. I was always told it's the husband who is meant to have the final say, the authority and to be the 'man of the house.' Additionally, I thought we learn this out from the רמב"ן who says the wife is meant to see her husband as a king and minister and abide by all he says?
What you are referring to is the Rambam in Hilchos Ishus 15 -19,20, where he writes “and a woman should honor her husband exceedingly, and she should everything that he says, and she should be “in her eyes” like king, and give him all he wants and remove whatever he dislikes”. However, this is a contradiction to what the Rambam himself writes in the halacha before that, “A man should honor his wife more than himself, and love her like himself, and if he has a lot of money, he should give her according to his means. He should also not make her fear him, and he should talk to her calmly and not, tense or angrily”. If he is supposed to honor her more than himself, then he will do whatever she says, however the Rambam already said that she should honor his word? R’ Moshe Aharon Stern zt”l once said regarding this, that there is a big difference, between the two Rambam’s, one of them is talking to the man, about what he has to do for his wife, and the other is taking to the wife, about what she should do for her husband. And each person has to concentrate only on what his or her obligations are, not to be careful that his spouse fulfils what she should do. Otherwise, each one will bring “proof” that they are right, and there will be no shalom bayis. If the husband will honor his wife the way he is supposed to, including listening to her opinion, (but not when it is detrimental for their spiritual growth), she will reciprocate, and honor him like a king. However, if he is going to act like a dictator, and she is the maid, and she must listen to him, so he can be the “man of the house”, then she will only want, to overthrow the dictatorship, and assert herself, in order to also feel like a person.
The Vilna Gaon writes that the difference between a king (a melech) and a dictator, (a moshel), is that a melech is inaugurated voluntarily by the country, whereas a dictator forces his dominion over the people against their will. I once heard that when the husband treats his wife with respect, and honor her, and her opinion, properly, then she will indeed treat him “like a king”, and try to fulfill his wishes to the best of her ability. However, if he is going to act like a dictator, then she is not going to want to treat him as a king, rather she will try to protect her “rights”, and they will be busy fighting constantly.
Absolutely. And sorry to keep 'nagging' about this question! But I still thought it was a halocha or something of the sort, that the woman must let her husband be the last one to choose/to have the final say. I heard it comes from the gemoroh, but not sure where. Would you be able to advise what the halocha is and what the gemorah says? Thanks!
I am not aware of such agemora. If you have such a gemora tyhen we can look into it.
and why also does the possuk use the word מושל to describe what the man should do - in "והוא ימשל בך"?
thanks alot!
Rashi explains what this means, that it is in regard to wanting relations. He doesn't say it is referring to everything, and having the last word.
ok thank you!
if the husband is talmid chochom, then in any difference of opinion, does that not make him the daas torah, therefore his opinion would be the correct one, as he is more aligned to what the torah wants?
Possibly, but it isn't automatic.
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