Someone made a large amount of challas that had inside of it onions that were cut with a milchig knife (the onions were put into the dough and then baked that way.) Is this a problem of making a large amount of milchig challas that they would all be ossur to eat (al pi what it says in YD Siman 97 – since it’s a large amount and without a shinui?) And that these onions are ossur to eat together with baser?
It appears that the bread is fine. If one can, it is good to make a siman now.
According to the Magen Avraham, who is stringent concerning the passing on of the taam of a davar charif, the bread will apparently be forgidden. However, many poskim side with the Even Ha-Ozer, who dispute this position (though the Mishnah Berurah cites the Magen Avraham alone).
However, there is room to contend that even the Magen Avraham will not be stringent if the knife was not a ben yomo, as we have discussed several times before, and the bread will therefore not be considered as having been kneaded with milk.
In addition, there is a likelihood of having shishim in the dough against the taste of milk in the onions.
Although the onions are milky, the prohibition of bread will not apply if only the onions that are mixed with it are milky (see Kovetz Be’er Yosef, 5768, at length on this point).
Based on the Chochmas Adam (concerning milk that spilled onto bread after it was baked), there is still room to make a siman now, though there is room to make a distinction between the cases. See also Badei Ha-Shulchan 97:1.
The onions were put in *before* baking — sorry if that was not clear. I don’t think there is any room to eat this bread with meat. Can’t say the onions are buttel since l’maseh they are niker! The first cheshbon you make I don’t see how it applies in this case….
Doesn’t apply because anyway these onions are milchig and stuck into the bread, how will you eat the bread with fleishigs (whether or not the bread itself became ossur…)
would it make a difference if the onions are b”ain in the challah?
No, the ruling applies even if the onions are be’ein. The reasoning is that the special halachah of “milky bread” does not apply to “milky onions in bread.”
But the onions were baked into the bread! Obviously if I took a piece of cheese and put it into the dough and baked it that way there anyway wouldn’t be a problem since I can see the cheese and know I can’t eat with meat therefore no chashash. However over here I don’t see there is cheese there and I have no other heker (not a small amount, not a shinui tzurah.) I don’t understand why the same reasoning of “milky bread” also wouldn’t apply in this case. Ain hachi nami SA only discussed a case of milk kneaded into the dough however for the same reasons could apply over here b’frat that the onions are ossur to eat with meat even b’dieved (unless perhaps shishim, etc.) Unless one will say the din of SIman 97 was so limited (b’frat that one might say it’s a far gezera … that we don’t have to take it this far.) The Rabbonim find themselves in good company as I haven’t found one willing to ossur it, just the reasons some to be difficult to understand. Thanks for the insights.
Let me ask you this…According to your reasoning. If I would take milk and mix it into some other ingredient and then mix that into the dough, what would you say then (b’ofen I can’t see the milk but the tam is still there.)
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